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LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

(Reposted from Birdside, thread)

Today, the Polish parliament will read a proposed law that makes it illegal to "promote homosexuality", including - I am not exaggerating - pretty much ANY positive talk of LGBT+ people and their rights in public settings.

And foreign media seem almost entirely silent on this.

The law was drafted a while ago, but didn't get into the Parliament for procedural reasons.

It EXPLICITLY bans e.g.:

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

* talking about LGBT ppl/issues in schools;
* Pride marches and any other LGBT-related public events;
* public endorsement of same-sex marriage or rights;

You read that right. If you say "I think gay people should get to be married" in a public setting, the new law states that you'd be committing a crime.

I know not everyone is equally passionate about LGBT activism, but this is actual insanity.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

I'm just so tired right now.

By the way - I'm not providing sources, because even Polish-language articles about this seem to be mostly behind paywalls or otherwise difficult to access.

And there aren't that many in the first place.

Anyone reading this, feel free to add links to sources in comments.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

Correction (again, reposted from Birdsite, with thanks to a person who pointed out the incorrect information):

The information in the initial Tweet is inaccurate in that the proposed change is only to the law regulating public gatherings. I was basing my initial information on Polish media that I thought I didn't have to double-check. My fault.

I *will* note that the bill that's being changed also (...)

LGBT rights, Poland 

(...) regulates spontaneous gatherings, and PL police have been known to apply that label very... loosely. I've seen ppl saying unofficially that them walking down the street with another person was treated as a "gathering".

re: LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail This is just total madness.. :amaze:

I knew it was getting harder and harder in Poland but this is just wtf.. Can we do something about this?

re: LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@stux

Directly, no.

Talking about it beyond just a "boost-and-forget" would be a good start.

Don't get me wrong, Boosts are great (especially since there are so many - meanwhile, on FB I got a total of 1 "share" so far, despite those people being mostly my actual friends... what, who's bitter? I'm not bitter.)

Writing to your local newspaper or TV station or other news source and asking them to cover this would be a good idea, too.

Beyond that, dunno.

@stux @oddtail


So without it going into a “my freedom of speech” arguement. Explain to me why Poland deserves to have LGBTQIAAP rights? Better yet, explain the practical good that said rights has done for Western Society in the past two-three decades.

Because I see child drag queen pageants and an increase case in women being beaten by men due to LGTBQIAAP RIGHTS. To add onto that, the suicide rate in general has jumped up, and more men in general have been depressed due to societal shifts in general.

If you can find me at least one TRUE positive side effect of the LGBTQ movement, I’ll say it’s outrageous that Poland isn’t allowing LGTBQ rights. But as things stand, if Poland didn’t fund Cyberpunk 2077, I’d be on the first flight out there now.
@gear @oddtail @stux
Also whilst we're here
You aren't talking about rights, but privileges. The discourse is framed as rights to grant it a sense of legitimacy right out the gate.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail It's so rough for the Poles right now. It's disgusting. I've been sort of watching Poland, but you know, relatively safe in Canada.

I feel like here we whine, without any concept of what its like elsewhere. We've got it good here.

It's not all the Polish though, my team lead at work is a Polish immigrant and he's a rad dude who doesn't put up with any bigoted shit in his presence.

What can you do, escape if you can, stay strong but safe if you can't. The long game will turn out eventually.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@shebang I'm not worried about myself personally. Even though I certainly plan to continue breaking the "law" if it comes to it. For other people's sake, not for my own.

I'm bi, but I'm married to a woman and otherwise close enough to het for it not to matter if I chooose it doesn't.

But I think I'm past my breaking point. And I'm doing at least a little for people who are much more vulnerable, even if it's just keeping the LGBT/bi flags in my windows.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail Good on you, and best of luck to everyone!

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail eng lang source:
abcnews.go.com/International/w

This is also not the only anti lgbtq proposal thats been considered lately it appears, a very similar bill was considered in November of last year (also in response to a petition: pinknews.co.uk/2020/11/11/pola ) and the polish government has announced plans to ban queer people from adopting children: them.us/story/poland-planning-

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@Satsuma thank you for digging up the sources.

I am literally too tired to bother RN. This sort of shit should be all over mainstream Western media without a random dude on Mastodon having to talk about it.

I know, it's a poor excuse to write source-less, but it's just so infuriating.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail yeah i completely understand! Your post had all the info I needed to find a source, and now it’s attached to the post for anyone else who wants to verify so it worker out I think

re: LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@Satsuma @oddtail thanks for the source
oddtail, saw all the shit in the comments. people have no decency 😩
thank you for sharing this news

re: LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail Oh my god. Poland is no. :blobcatscared:

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail for ones behind paywalls, see if it has been mirrored on archive.is ? that’s a common way I share paywalled articles :)

oh also, I think same-sex marriage is 1000% someone’s right, as is who they love and are intimate with. these politicians/scumbags can kiss my ass. 👍 their ignorant bullshit will make me be extra vocal about these rights now.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail this is why I can't wait to leave this country. Why shit like that only happens in poland and hungary out of all of eu?

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@wilmhit because PL ppl like to pretend to be European, progressive and civilised and shit like that, but we're ultimately a nation that has culturally been very little exposed to actual Western cultures and values.

Poles, even relatively sane ones, mostly like to roleplay being European =P

And so we generally act like a typical very religious, very conserative nation.

Hopefully it'll change in time, but I think the change so far has been disappointingly slow.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@wilmhit as to Hungary, no opinion, I don't know enough about them culturally or politically.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@wilmhit @oddtail That... is a very good question.
There is some hope here that Fidesz won't officially be in power much longer. I hope we all can get rid of our bigots sooner rather than later.
(ps.: also gosh most of the people I met during my very short stay in Warsaw seemed really cool and I hope they are safe.)

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail might be an english-speaking media problem, all my german sources mentioned it today

Here's the Deutsche Welle
m.dw.com/en/poland-parliament-

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@eearroyo1312 good on them! Thank you for providing the link.

re: LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail what the fuck poland

someone needs to go up to whoever's in charge in poland and give them a good kick to the shins
-F

re: LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@Felthry hey, 35% of Poles still plan to vote on the ruling party in the next election. Down from 40%-ish last October, I think?

That's not terrible, but that still makes them the largest Polish political party in terms of support.

Granted, most Polish opposition parties are a joke. And continue to be so, because they think the ruling party being terrible is enough, as long as they are ever-so-slightly less terrible and do literally nothing.

So that's fun.

re: LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail i am very sorry you have to deal with that and i hope things can change
-F

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail@meow.social, sorry for my ENG
Could you please drop a link with this law so that you can get acquainted with its interpretation? I hardly believe in SUCH harsh laws in Europe, I want to get acquainted with the document.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@aurel1on_sol sure thing. Check my newest Toot for a link.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail

Not everyone is passionate about LGBTQ+ stuff, but everyone should be worried about what Poland is doing to silence LGBTQ+ people just as its currently silencing Jews or others who talk about Poland's role in the Holocaust.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail

Texas is working towards the same thing now, passing laws to enable any random white fuckstain to harass or discriminate against queer people.

Cis white people won't do shit. They'll just strap on their ZuckGoggles and live in the Amazon Orbital Office Park doing pointless things to earn fake money.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail Ooooof. Britain used to have the first part, and that on its own was bad enough. Made life so much worse for gay teenagers, by basically stopping teachers from doing any anti-homophobia work at all. I'm sorry you're up against this, and I hate that this kind of shit is electable anywhere.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@eldang yes, but Britain had laws like this back when nobody knew or cared much about LGBT people.

This is 2021, in the middle of Europe. One would expect things to have changed a little bit. I'm not expecting Poland to be the most tolerant country ever, I'm expecing Polish politicians not to blatantly rip the country's constitution into pieces to fuel their frankly embarrassing, backwards crusade that they use to try and prop up their poll numbers.

[/rant]

re: LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail This is just insane...I hope it does not pass.

While many around the world are crying because they have to wear a mask or get a vaccine and carrying on about loss of freedom or rights over not wanting to do that...this is actually taking away people rights....like for real What in the actual fuck

re: LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@mgrondin I have some hope it will not get further than the lower house of the Parliament, because it's extreme even by ruling right-wingers' standards.

Plus, it's blatantly unconstitutional and against European Union law.

Plus, y'know, completely insane.

But I'm afraid to say that with certainty. I've been wrong about what consitutes "completely insane" before.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail This looks awful lot like what we have in Russia.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@drq I've seen more than one person on Twitter say it's pretty much the same, except made even stricter in some select areas.

So yeah, I'm really hoping nothing comes of this.

Also, good luck to y'all in Russia. I know it's pretty bad for LGBT people there, and has been for a while.

Stay strong.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@drq @oddtail

slavs 🤝 slavs

hating people

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@a1ba @drq

I know I myself made a sweeping statement about Poles being generally conservative and such, but even ignoring that - Czechia seems pretty pro-LGBT judging by opinion polls and such, so does Slovakia.

This is mostly an Eastern European thing. And not about ALL of E. Europe, either. Plenty of Slavic nations without such blatant homophobia, is all I'm saying.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail @drq I'm just kidding. Don't take it too seriously

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@a1ba I hate people pushing for those laws, that's for sure.

@oddtail

@oddtail@meow.social I feel the pain, in Hungary our lovely tyrants signed a bill like that a few months ago. 🫂

@efertone yeah, I know. Poland seems to take a page from the authoritarian Hungarian playbook in more ways than one.

Stay strong, things will get better - both here and over there. One way or another.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail Btw. you should consider adding hashtags to such posts. With so many retoots this would easily show up in the "trending" sidebar and reach even more people.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@ollibaba I'll remember that the next time, thanks for pointing it out.

Hopefully the next time will not be too soon from now.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail

I attended a protest against that last week, but it was very small. The organizers told me they wanted to make a statement, but didn't want to promote the bill itself because any publicity is good publicity, considering that it's Kaja Godek who started this - a nutcase and not exactly popular. Plus, this bill was thrown away once before, by the supreme court.

I'm not _that_ optimistic, but it is something.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@glitchyhare wasn't it thrown out on procedural grounds?

Yes, it's obviously unconstitutional, but quite a few people on the Supreme Court are blatant lackeys of the ruling party, elected to the body completely illegally.

So, I think there's reason to worry at least a little.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@glitchyhare *Contitutional Court

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail

I never said I didn't worry. After all, I went to that protest _after_ reading up about this draft and despite deciding it was unlikely to pass. It is important for me not to be surprised again, like when the abortion ban became law.

I had an article bookmarked about it and I believe it is like you're saying, but unfortunately I don't remember anymore.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail

I do realize the political climate is dynamic and what was thrown away yesterday might be accepted with open arms today.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@glitchyhare

Yes.

See also: the, supposedly untouchable, abortion "compromise". After a few test runs, they happily got rid of it. Fuck protests and fuck protesters.

I hope it's enough for non-fanatics who voted for them come next election. If this is not enough for PiS to lose at least a few solid percentage points in polls, then seriously fuck this country. We will see.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail

I'm tired of hoping people will vote smart next time. I just want to flee this country already.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@glitchyhare

Perfectly fair and valid. Leave if and when you can.

I'm more tired of people who "don't care about politics". They still seem to exist. And of course the people who believe in voting the same every time who believe they'll somehow get different results (looking at PO's voters, especially given how many people transfer back and forth between PiS and PO). But that's a whole different can of worms that I won't go into.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail

Yes, I also think the contribution of both of these groups would make a huge difference. This is why I debate family members patiently and persistently. With okay results.

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail What is the actuel f*ck I 😶

LGBT rights, Poland, please boost 

@oddtail I don't see any issue
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