Meta (Not about Snouts) 

I'm wondering what can be done in terms of closed communities to foster more positive interactions. Lashing out, non-communication, bizarre power dynamics from moderation, cliques, and of course bad actors all coalesce to crystalize bigotry of all kinds on here. There are other problems that I'm too blind to recognize, too.

I'm just wondering what can be done to make *gestures circularly* this not happen.

Meta (Not about Snouts) 

I see how bad IRC has become. I see how bad lots of communities that aren't intentional about their shaping have become. Shaping of community isn't an accident. I look at positive communities, and it's clear that intention goes into their shaping.

I look at what Mastodon was a few years ago, and I look at it now, and I deeply fear its trajectory. I fear the force of evil it may become.

We're not doing enough to build communities worth inhabiting.

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Meta (Not about Snouts) 

We need strong, intentional moderation with no nonsense policies. Moderation ought to be a discipline, not a joke. Otherwise we have situations where people being bad actors is a matter of opinion rather than a decision about how to move forward. Lingering and sitting on the fence with bigots isn't helpful for anyone.

Meta (Not about Snouts) 

Yea, I'm essentially calling out every moderator right now. To be blunt, this hobby isn't fun, it's important. Community building is hard and people don't take it seriously. If I thought it'd be fun, I'd be running my own instance right now.

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Meta (Not about Snouts) 

It hurts so much to see the promise of fedi from a few years ago implode so hard. It shakes me to my core to see my beliefs in the power of communities to dictate their own needs challenged so fully.

Quite frankly, maybe we do collectively all need a babysitter. Maybe we ultimately don't know how to behave.

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Meta (Not about Snouts) 

I'm almost at a point where I see P.V as the only instance to really actually adhere to the original supposed principles that a lot of Fedi claims to subscribe to. It's the only instance that's really stayed consistent in what it stands for, in its moderation, and its unwavering refusal to tolerate nonsense.

And I see the rest of Fedi lashing out at them as a result.

I don't anticipate that being a popular sentiment, but that's what I see

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Meta (Not about Snouts) 

This isn't a call to "be better". This is me saying I'm tired and disappointed. I get people with good intentions looking at this thread and going "yea, this one, this is how it'll get fixed". I don't buy it.

The fact that Marcia isn't welcome here and bizarre perpetual shit flinging is says everything about the vested priorities and interests of this place

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Meta (Not about Snouts) 

I myself tend to follow people that aren't good for me. I perpetuate and contribute to nonsense.

I'm just uncertain what I believe in terms of community anymore

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Meta (Not about Snouts) 

@MadestMadness

Honestly, this is the largest reason I could never be sold on anarchism.

I guess I'd say that I'm not sure your premise is wrong 鈥 communites often do (though not always) know their own needs; it's knowing (and working with) the needs of other communities that's hard to grasp 鈥 and, so, things naturally break down between them.

Which could somewhat be expected 鈥 we know that people are fallible and, often, in ways that should be obvious or avoidable.

Meta (Not about Snouts) 

@MadestMadness

But I don't necessarily think that means there isn't hope for humans; just that we can't entrust as much in our ability to function reliably.

I imagine there are other possible solutions but I tend to fall back to well-constructed systems; and this is easily applicable to environments like the Fediverse.

For example 鈥 we know that being able to downvote things can lead to dog-piling or harrassment, maybe due to its negative nature.

Meta (Not about Snouts) 

@MadestMadness

So many social services only offering favoriting or up-voting 鈥 provide positive output as the only viable option.

It's simple and most people don't even think about it 鈥 but the system ensures better behavior and, at no point, requires human decision (beyond people sending positive vibes to their fellow humans).

People might try ways to circumvent 鈥 because that's what humans do鈥 鈥 but it slows us down.

Meta (Not about Snouts) 

@MadestMadness

Obviounsly, we clearly need a lot more than just this simple mechanism; but people build things, intuitively or just because they can.

That can be communities but that can also be mobs and witchhunt commities; I'm not worried about people communicating what they or their community needs effectively.

But, if we can figure out the right ways to guide interactions, we could create spaces for people to intuitively build what they want and need 鈥 safely.

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