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Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

Hey, so it's not too difficult to find games, movies, comics, etc that specifically depict powerful female protagonists and/or trans women because these works tend to specifically be labeled as such.

I have a friend, who is a trans man, that's trying to find works that depict inspiring male role models. He's trying to find works to better help him understand positive masculinity. Does anyone have any ideas?

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness Jean luc Picard, from star trek the next generation.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@Red Thank you! He's a perfect role model! 😃

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@Red @MadestMadness I'm enjoying these replies/recommendations, but I'd qualify Picard with "after the first half season" when they gave up on his loathing children.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness Mr. Rogers, Bob Ross, Peewee Herman, all portray alternative masculinities imho

I know I know Peewee Hermans not a real dude an hes kinda a cartoon but sometimes lighter fare helps to heal the soul too

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness Lir in Last Unicorn, if you like subs

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@venusinlibra666 @MadestMadness how did i forget me Rogers and Bob Ross!! :blobross:

re: Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness ok this is a left field one, but Kratos from the ps4 God of War game gives a FASCINATING look into toxic masculinity and a man desperately trying to raise his son to be a better person than he ever had the chance to be. his struggle to empathize and even communicate despite the horrors he's lived through, to try and be a good father despite it all... it really got me deep. but also it's kinda gory hack&slash

re: Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@Lady From what I know about the game, this is a fantastically good point. He doesn't have a PS4 on hand, but maybe he could get a chance to play the game at some point anyways?

Thank you for this 🙂

re: Help finding depictions of positive, masculinity in media, Please boost, minor God of War series spoilers 

@Lady @MadestMadness Definitely something I've heard around, GoW1-3(and i'ts weird other things, like Ghost of Sparta) are pretty much just Kartos being an asshole perpetuating pain in hopes that it'll free him from his pain, like its transferable(even if sometimes he was in fact promised by the gods that it would), and it never does, meanwhile 4 sounds like him coming to terms with what he's done, what he's suffered, and trying to give his kid a better life than he had, and in some ways, it is a freedom, while his wife and daughter will never come back, this is a second chance to raise a kid, and one he won't forsake like last time

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@Jmaurer @MadestMadness Gomez and Tish have extremely strong t4t energy (citation: shatnerchatner.com/p/the-trans )

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness Lord Of The Rings, for friendship without holding back.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness A little while ago, I remember there was a thread asking a similar question, but more specifically about fathers. Benjamin Sisko of Deep Space 9 was mentioned. I think DS9 possibly has several positive masculine roles. Of course that's a lot of material to work through as a lot of it is pew pew space battles and politics. :/

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@cstanhope @MadestMadness sure, Sisko is a great father, but at one time he also trashes a WHOLE FUCKING PLANET, essentially commiting genocide, just for a personal vendetta.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness The Doctor, from Doctor Who, is a really good male role model. And occasionally a good female role model since they regenerate and all.
I've been watching Doctor Who since I was literally in the crib, and it deeply affected me to see a man who solved conflicts via diplomacy, never took joy in having to be the one who hurt someone, always gave villains a second chance, traveled with a group of chosen family, who he openly loved, etc.

Not every incarnation of The Doctor is the best example of this, though, as his character warmed up over the years and faced hardships that set him back. The First and Third Doctors could be a bit overly gruff, and Six was portrayed as a jerk by the at-the-time abysmal writers - though his characterization in the official audio dramas, which have different writers, is actually supremely kind and a perfect example of good masculinity!
And then the Time War happened and the Ninth Doctor became slightly cruel because of it, but he is redeemed fully within the season. ("Which are you, Doctor? Coward, or killer?" - "Coward. Every time.")
Thirteen is of course a woman, and the change is viewed tastefully and basically as The Doctor being genderfluid and having a year of feeling and presenting female. She talks about "back when she was a bloke" like it's the most normal thing in the world, but will also probably be a man again some time. It's interesting.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness Most of the people I've would say have been pointed out by others, but I can still add in Uncle Iroh from Avatar The Last Airbender. Oh and also Sora in Kingdom Hearts, especially KH2.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@adamk678 @MadestMadness Hell, Avatar the Last Airbender is an absolute treasure trove of good male role models! The protagonist is a young male monk who (literally) doesn't want to hurt a fly, and has to balance this against the fact that he has to topple a fascist dictator who may be impossible to just lock up. But he never folds - he never, ever resorts to killing.
Sokka starts as the oafish male stereotype but evolves over time, and Zuko is an excellent example of managing to redeem yourself from your toxic past. Then there's Iroh, indeed, but hell, this cartoon has positive masculinity everywhere!

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost, Avatar TLA Spoilers 

@V @adamk678 @MadestMadness Zuko isn't just a toxic past, but a toxic family, and finding new strength in a found family, Zuko has to unlearn a lot of stuff, and replace it with lessons of better paths, better ways to live

Sokka learns to stuff it sometimes, to show respect for young, old, man and woman, for all have strengths, or can be strong, and all have flaws, and can be weak, and what true strength is, its not about strength of arms, though that helps when push comes to shove, but of words, ideals, will, strength to protect is greater than simply strength to fight

Iroh is just kinda awesome, he doesn't have as strong an arc as others, but that's primarily because he's already grown into a great person, he just needs to find the chance and place to put his strengths to use for a better future, he knows the power behind his art, the processes and metaphors and lessons and aesops to be learned from learning it, rather than just the sheer power of FIRE, the control and complicity it takes to manipulate something like Lighting, it's not something you can simply bend to your will, but something you have to guide, for it will take the path it wishes, you can only offer better ones, not force one, he shows this with Zuko too, often presenting options, but not forcing him, because he knows it won't help either of them

Aang's story is... a lot, obviously, as the central character the whole journey is mounted on, he learns that he must fight, that active action is needed and words don't always work, but he never stops trying to take those actions in softer non-lethal, non-violent or damaging ways, or simply being diplomatic, when its within both his strength and options, he learns to trust his friends, to seek help, to do things beyond his strength with help and understanding

Avatar is a great choice

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@adamk678 @MadestMadness God, KH2 Sora is a mess when you start to look at the factors surrounding 2, like he looks happy go lucky still, but he's emotionally not doing so hot and is pretty much perpetually on the cusp of a breakdown over Riku(And Kairi I guess, shame she's pretty much a cardboard cutout, and even Sora's reaction to Riku agrees), held back by sheer positivity and Actually Doing Something... even if Atlantica isn't actually helping

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@adamk678 @MadestMadness yes Kingdom Hearts has great male characters in general (unironically including say, Goofy), and they've got a very wide variety of personalities

it honestly played a big part in helping me in the sense your friend is looking for

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness Gomez Addams!

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness

Someone here mentioned Gomez Addams (of the Addams family), FWIW.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness steven universe

re: Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@cosine @MadestMadness Yes, Steven!

re: Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@cosine @MadestMadness Also his dad is great.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness awkward timing with the jk Rowling thing but I think newt skamander in fantastic beasts is a pretty positive male role model.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness For the idea of healthy masculinity I like the character of Raleigh Beckett from "Pacific Rim." Some viewers call him boring, but they are wrong.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness All I can think of off the top of my head is Fred Rogers, @Siphonay is more studied on this subject and might have more and better examples

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@Mycroft @MadestMadness positive masculinity is actually a bit hard to define...

On the top of my head I'd say other TV personalities like Bob Ross and Steve Irwin?

I think I saw a thread asking a similar question on reddit.com/r/MensLib some time ago, it's probably worth a search!

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@Mycroft @MadestMadness reread the thread and found nobody mentioning Pacha from The Emperor's New Groove

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness from a bit of digging around, seems it's a hard problem, as "toxic masculinity" is defined less by 'masculine' traits, and more actions taken too far in an attempt to preserve fragile masculinity

because of male default in our language, a lot of positive traits are already gendered as masculine by default, and seem to only sway to toxic masc or fem

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness Would Danny, Jesse, and Joey from Full House, the TV show (late 80s, early 90s) be ok?

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@liw I haven't seen it, but I will check it out 🙂

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness Carrot Ironfoundersson if you can tolerate positive depictions of cops. (And Vimes for a more troubled version of same, but mostly Carrot.)

Weird Al, in the mould of Rogers, Ross and Herman..

re: Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@reinderdijkhuis @MadestMadness To anyone who likes Carrot, I'd suggest giving Due South a try.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness FFXV, particularly its supporting works. The characters all have an undercurrent of positivity and support for each other that comes together very well, even through their respective backstories.

Also, Gomez Addams, but quite a few folks have said that already.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness Bob, from Bob's Burgers.

re: Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness Big John from the Jimmy Dean song Big Bad John.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnnHprUGKF0

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness Bear Grylls is probably a good one.

He's the head of the global scout movement (the scout and cub scout laws are good ones to live by, even as an adult), he admits when he's scared and vulnerable, and he seems to be an all round good person.

On top of that, the survival programs he makes for TV are pretty freaking cool :awwwblob:

re: Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness
Uncle Iroh in Avatar: The Last Airbender
Fraser in Due South

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness uncle iroh from avatar, the last airbender

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness the king from Dragon Prince. He dies within the first episode(s?), but that suffices to make it clear what a great, nontoxic man and father he is.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness Lee Scoresby from His Dark Materials? Charismatic and supportive, nothing toxic about him I can think of

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness I think Star Trek: Voyager has a few. Harry Kim springs to my mind. Also I like the Doctor because he's actively trying to develop and makes a number of mistakes, but always ends up learning from them.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost, possible spoilers for Lucifer 

@MadestMadness Dan from Lucifer strikes me as pretty positive re: masculinity. He's depicted as the unlikeable ex at the beginning and he's definitely flawed, but I think he shows humility, is occasionally vulnerable and remains an active father despite being about to go ahead with divorce.

Also, I like that he chooses improv theater as a way to cope with life challenges.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost, possible spoilers for Lucifer 

@draco @MadestMadness I agree on Dan for the first few seasons but at some point he... does things. I don't want to spoil later seasons of Lucifer xD

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness Ashitaka from Princess Mononoke vimeo.com/357117766

Also, Steven Universe and Newt Scamander were already mentioned, but for more on those characters and also because it could be of interest in general, i'd suggest you take a look at the channel from Pop Culture Detective youtube.com/user/rebelliouspix

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness I like Iro in Avatar, and Bow in Shira.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness As most all the replies have been about fictional characters - outside of Fred Rogers, which is ABSOLUTELY one of the strongest, most positive _PEOPLE_ there ever was - and a fantastic role model - and his various characters -

It may just be me, but I'd put KRS-One in there. Not just for his music, but also his speaking outside of music.

Like all role models (some would say Pee Wee Herman's actor is not the sort to be using, because he made a mistake... which is true, and one needs to determine whether a role model must be perfect or if characters portrayed by flawed folks can be role models) one should look at the person and their words and actions themselves, and judge if that fits their description...

but when I think of Americans who make me proud to be an American, KRS-One is one of them.
(I'm sure I'll be vilified by someone now, as this is the internetz.)

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@Truck @MadestMadness
If imperfect people also count, I learned a lot from reading the biography of Anthony Kiedis (Scar Tissue), and all the RHCP interviews where the Chilis are just so unabashedly supportive of each other and everyone around them is just great.
Other IRL people:
Oliver Thorn (of Philosophy Tube)
Zach Valenti (Wolf 359, also the character he plays (well, one of them))
Fiction:
lots of characters from Greater Boston

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@Truck @MadestMadness And a bit of a weird one, but I also found some of the characters of the Chernobyl miniseries to be pretty inspiring, even though they were all flawed in one way or another. I really liked how it depicted heroism in a gut wrenchingly emotional way. There are no action movie heroes in it, people just do what needs to be done to save lives, and they are still flawed and they still fear for their lives.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness Commander William T. Riker in Star Trek TNG? I'm pointing him out because he may be controversial, but while he fucks around _a lot_ he's also a decent human being and treats everyone with the respect they deserve. He's also all about consent.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness plus a sense of humor, responsibility, humility (at times), leadership, friend, perhaps slightly too competitive.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness This is a good question! I went through a time of looking for these, though specifically father figures, when I became a parent. Turned up disappointingly few in media. These may not be _good_ role models but they could have inspiring bits to pick out.
Captain Fantastic - Viggo Mortensen's character is masculine and stubborn and imperfect but learns to listen to his kids and when to change without losing his self.
The ex-military father in the film I think is called Leave No Trace. Really struggles with his mental health but (within the boundaries of his paranoia) uses masculine coping / survival skills to provide for his daughter. Again, he has to learn to listen and recognise when he's wrong.
In general I think good fathering can be a great source of positive masculinity images. I just an hour ago saw a new Dad playing tricks with his baby in a shop.
There's also a book that PM Press put out that I would recommend. When i remember the title.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness
It was Rad Dad. I think at least one of the essays was by a trans person as well.
pmpress.org/index.php?l=produc

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness Brooklyn nine-nine has a few characters with traditional "manly" traits using them in a positive manner. CW cops.

re: Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@derwinmcgeary @MadestMadness Oh, Brooklyn has wonderful positive masculinity characters. Moreso as the series progresses, there's some "sexual harassment for laughs" before it improves later.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness

Home Improvement and Decorating shows frequently feature men who are respectful, competent, and hard workers. Sometimes they cry. They're not fiction, but they're abundant in the media.

Bob Ross and Mr. Rogers are older examples, but still relevant.

Help finding depictions of positive masculinity in media, Please boost 

@MadestMadness

I wasn't clear. What I really meant when I said "hard workers" was that they are honest and trustworthy.

If they say they can do something, then they do it. If they realize they can't do it, they're immediately upfront about it.

That kind of behavior, coupled with men who comfortable enough with their feelings that they honestly cry on camera is something that can be rare.

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