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Hot take: X11's separation of the window manager and the display server is really good and Wayland is taking a step backward by combining the two.

If KWin crashes or I need to restart it, I shouldn't lose EVERYTHING.

And yes, this does happen.

@IceWolf linux has had a few things in recent years that have just been "we must replace this because it's old. works perfectly fine, but it's old"

@patterfloof *cough*ifconfig*cough*

[they're prying my ifconfig from my /cold dead jaws/]

@IceWolf systemd is tech heresy, and I am willing to die on this hill

@patterfloof Honestly we have no strong opinions on systemd. Like it as a service manager like Mac's launchd, don't like how it's trying to do /everything/ (systemd-boot? systemd-resolved?).

@IceWolf In fairness, the WM + display server can be separated in Wayland. There's nothing intrinsic to wayland to prevent that.

Wayland is just a protocol, not an application. It's down to the compositor implementor's decision whether the WM and display server run as separate process. It just happens to be simpler to implement them together.

@j Oh huh, had no clue you /could/ separate them like that!

Someone should write a display server everyone can plug window managers into. 3

@j ... course, that would require ANOTHER protocol soooo never mind.

@IceWolf Welp, ignore my last message. Seems like you figured it out for yourself.

@IceWolf The trouble there is that you now have to decide on a protocol that those WM's speak with the display server, and then need to get people to implement it.

@IceWolf @j there are a few library projects that are a bit like that, e.g. Wlroots and Smithay. I guess that in practice most types "non-mainstream" windows managers will be ported to/reimplemented on Wlroots.

@IceWolf Kwayland isn't considered ready for general usage rn and there are many issues with it.

@squeakypancakes Ready for general usage or not! My issue is with the /design/.

(We've never tried KWayland, but don't want to run into this situation seeing as we sometimes have to restart kwin on X.)

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